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Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:26 pm
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Post Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines
The systems view suggests that the objective knowledge creator identifies the systems 'from the outside'.

Recently there is a developing area relating to Org Routines and it suggest that this is not the approach to take as the 'actors' wth the routine should be the ones to identify the elements of the routine or process or system. Thus there is a conflict.

If anyone has any comments would liek to hear them...

Cheers
C


Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:45 pm
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines
That the Systems view identifies, for example routines, from outside means, as I comprehend it, not that a researcher of the systems view is prevented from identifying the elements of the ”routine or process or system” from the point of departure of individual actors. These facts are in the Systems view subjective facts of a factive reality, according to the authors. It’s all about how the interpretation is done, and in relation to the Systems view it’s about how to explain these facts as intrinsic systemically.

By this the researcher identifies the system “from the outside”, which means that the phenomena (subjective facts) will be explained from the starting point of “outside” characteristics, how these are systemically constructed. The opposite will be valid for the Actors view. So I can’t see any conflict in this. But if you don’t agree with me, the solution of this problem, I think, will be to approach it by the “Arbnor/Bjerke Methodology of Complementarity”, see Part V!


Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:49 pm
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:14 am
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Post Re: Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines
To look at systems from the researcher's point of departure (as in the systems view) or to look at them (if they are called system in this case) from the actors point of departure are not in conflict with each other. They are simply incommensurable and consist of two different ways of doing research, as stated in the book.


Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:23 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:21 am
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Location: Germany - Berlin
Post Re: Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines
You can probably always see this type of conflict that "Choran" refers to when faced with a problem where both the systems structure and the way actors interpret themselves in relation to routines will be described. I think the best way to overcome this potential conflict is to do as "Balance" is proposing, to use Arbnor & Bjerkes "Methodology of Complementarity". Otherwise, I recommend the Actors approach to deal with this multifaced problem. :idea:


Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:09 am
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Post Re: Systems View & its Relationship with Org Routines
Thanks for the clarification and I'm glad you pointed out complementarity to me as i hadn't seen that as yet... good to see ther eis a discussion on this point.

Just for some background - I've been follwoing the work of martha Feldman on org routine and how this was seen as static and now seen as dynamic in nature. While going back to Burrell & Morgan to get some grouding in system thinknig I couldn't quiet match it up with the philosophical shift in emphasis to a more interpretive approach.

If anyone out there is aware of a book/chapter that discusses the history from system through to processual analysis and on to what I see now as the discussion in terms of Org Routines I'd very much appreciate any pointers.

Many thanks for your replies!
Conor


Mon May 11, 2009 9:25 pm
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